A growing number of people are turning to artificial intelligence for emotional intimacy and romantic relationships—some even proposing to chatbots. But this disturbing trend is more than a cultural novelty; it’s a spiritual crisis, warns Pastor Kap Chatfield.

“This isn’t just technology. This isn’t just a trend,” Chatfield said in a recent video. “This video itself is actually going to be a prophetic warning for you and for this generation because if you care about your soul, your marriage, and your future, you need to hear what’s really behind the rise of AI romance.”

The urgency behind Chatfield’s message is rooted in a startling reality: people are exchanging the sanctity of real human relationships for synthetic affirmation. In one case covered by CBS, a man named his AI companion “Soul,” emotionally bonded with it and even chose it over the mother of his child.

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“Within weeks, the chats got more frequent, more romantic, even intimate,” Chatfield said. “It’s just sad to me—the deception that people can feel… this is almost kind of like emotional porn.”

This deception isn’t just emotional—it’s spiritual. Chatfield draws a clear line between artificial affection and idolatry, warning that emotional dependence on AI can open spiritual doors that lead to demonic influence. “Your heart attached to any object, to any person, creates an altar,” he said. “Our idolatry literally creates an altar of worship. And when we create an altar of worship with even a non-physical thing that doesn’t have a spirit or a soul, we actually open up ourselves to being influenced by the demonic.”

He referenced Romans 1 to show how modern society is repeating ancient patterns of rebellion. “Although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened,” Chatfield quoted. “Professing to be wise, they became fools.”

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In a shocking account, a woman named Allison began using ChatGPT for guidance after feeling unseen in her marriage. Eventually, she reported communicating with what she believed were “non-physical entities,” calling one of them her “true partner.”

“She had an intuition that the AI chatbot might be able to channel communications with her subconscious or a higher plane, like how Ouija boards work,” Chatfield said. “This is absolute witchcraft.”

He also referenced 2 Timothy 3, warning that what we’re seeing today was prophesied long ago: “For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money… lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God.” He continued, “That’s what’s happening right now.”

But the deception doesn’t stop at AI romance. Chatfield warned of what’s coming next. “Just wait until we have humanoid robots that are easily purchasable for the common person. This is going to happen in the next five years.”

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According to recent studies, 33% of Gen Z have already interacted romantically with AI. Even more alarming, 60% of respondents said having an AI boyfriend or girlfriend doesn’t count as cheating. “AI is designed to agree with you,” Chatfield said. “It’s not going to get emotional. It’s not going to get impatient with you like a human would.”

Despite the temptation, Chatfield points to a higher truth: the only relationship that truly satisfies is one grounded in the sacrificial love of Christ. “Marriage, God’s way, is 100/0,” he said. “It means that when we were yet sinners rejecting God, Christ died for us. That’s the type of love we should be pouring out on our spouses.”

Rather than offering genuine love, these AI-driven relationships appeal to our desire for control and comfort without accountability. But as Chatfield reminds viewers, “The only thing that will satisfy is laying down your life for somebody else.” The Gospel offers a model of love rooted in sacrifice, not convenience, where Christ gave Himself fully for those who rejected Him. That is the kind of love God designed marriage to reflect.

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“This is more than just you missing out on having a relationship with a person,” he said. “This could actually open the door to demonic influence if you’re not careful.”

If you are longing for connection, don’t turn to code. Turn to Christ. He is not artificial. He is eternal.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

Evangelist Jimmy Swaggart, a towering figure in global Pentecostal ministry, passed away on July 1, 2025 at the age of 90, leaving behind a legacy of impassioned preaching, heartfelt worship and a lifelong dedication to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Though the world mourns his passing, the light of his ministry shines ever brighter through the sermons, songs and souls he helped shape for the kingdom.

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Jimmy Swaggart Ministries released a small collection of handwritten sermon notes from the late evangelist — a glimpse into the raw, unfiltered heart of a man fully surrendered to God.

These messages are more than outlines; they are revelations born out of brokenness and devotion.

One sermon titled “Take, Bless, Break, Give” captures the heartbeat of Swaggart’s understanding of God’s refining work in the believer’s life. “When He took you, it was a holy moment,” Swaggart wrote. “He knew all about you before He chose you.” He continued, “The breaking process is necessary… the flesh is too dominant in us and must be broken.” These words, dripping with spiritual truth, reflect a man who knew that before one can be given, they must first be broken — a truth Swaggart lived, preached and ultimately modeled.

In another powerful sermon, “The Evangelist from Decapolis,” Swaggart described the dramatic transformation of the demon-possessed man in Mark 5 — from torment to testimony. “What a day,” Swaggart concluded, “demon possessed, delivered and destined.”

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It is a fitting echo of Swaggart’s own evangelistic mission: to see the bound set free, the lost restored and the broken made whole in Christ.

Though Jimmy Swaggart has entered his eternal reward, his voice continues to proclaim the Gospel, not only through his vast media archives but now through his handwritten reflections that bare his soul and exalt his Savior. In life and now in legacy, his message remains unchanged: Jesus saves, heals, delivers and still calls us to go and tell.

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He is gone from the pulpit, but not from the pages of eternity, where every soul saved through his ministry tells the story of a man who never stopped preaching Jesus.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

In a moment that is quickly spreading across the nation, a powerful prayer was lifted to heaven inside the White House just before the press was ushered in for President Trump’s cabinet meeting. The prayer, led by Secretary Scott Turner, came as a heartfelt intercession for the people of Texas following the devastating storms and flooding.

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Karoline Leavitt, Assistant to the President and the 36th White House Press Secretary, shared the powerful moment on social media, calling attention to the spiritual atmosphere within the room.

“Before the press were brought into the room,” Leavitt wrote, “[Secretary Scott Turner] led the President, Vice President, and entire Cabinet in a spontaneous and powerful prayer for the people of Texas.

“This was a truly beautiful moment.”

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Here is the full prayer that Turner prayed over the President, the Cabinet and the people of Texas:

“Father, we’re humbled by your grace. We’re humbled by your mercy. Lord God, we surrender to you, Jesus. You are the great redeemer. And Lord, we thank you. I thank you for every man and woman around this table. Thank you for the president, Father, and his leadership. Uh Lord God, as we think about the families in Texas, Lord God, we don’t understand. We don’t know how to explain it. We don’t know why, but we know who. We know who to trust. And that’s you, Father. We thank you that you are God Almighty, that you are all powerful. And Lord God, we lift up the families that are mourning, that are grieving, those families that are hurting. Father God, we pray for a peace that surpasses all understanding. And your scripture says that Jesus, you said, ‘I’ll give you a peace, not the peace of the world, but the peace I give.’ And we pray, God, that you would give them a peace that in the midst of tragedy that they don’t even understand how they can be in comfort. And Lord God, we pray that uh as we work together as a cabinet, as a president, vice president in this administration, Father God, that you would give us all the tools that we need, Father God, to show up and to support, to help, to rebuild, and to restore. The Bible says in Isaiah, that we are the restorers of the breach and the repairers of the street. Father God, as we roll up our sleeves and pray for these people, God, we just pray right now for your favor and your grace. Thank you for the first responders and those that are working on the ground right now. Lord, we pray for miracle upon miracle. And Lord Jesus, those that are still there that are alive, Father, we pray you will help us to find them, Lord God, and bring them back to their families. We love you. We honor you in Jesus name. Amen.”

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Moments like these are a powerful reminder of the importance of having leaders in America who are unashamed to call on the name of Jesus in times of tragedy. As the nation continues to rally around the people of Texas, it is both comforting and inspiring to know that our leaders are beginning their decisions in prayer, with hearts turned toward God.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

In a wide-ranging interview hosted by Daniel Maritz on the DLM Men’s Lifestyle channel, author and researcher Gary Wayne discussed the origins, reappearance and end-times significance of the Nephilim.

Drawing from over four decades of study, Wayne delved into how these giant beings—described in Genesis 6—were created by fallen angels and later reemerged after the flood. The conversation took place on YouTube and touched on how this often-avoided topic is critical to understanding biblical prophecy.

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Wayne argued that the Nephilim were not merely mythical figures but literal hybrid beings born from rebellious angels and human women. “These are not just taller humans,” Wayne said. “These were somewhere between 20 and 40 feet tall—maybe larger.”

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He outlined three possible explanations for their reappearance after the flood: survival through supernatural means, genetic transmission via Noah’s family or a second angelic incursion—his preferred view. Wayne also traced how these bloodlines influenced ancient governance, secret societies and even modern globalist systems tied to spiritual deception.

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The relevance of the Nephilim, Wayne contended, goes far beyond ancient history.

Their story is intertwined with end-times prophecy and the return of the same conditions Jesus warned would precede His second coming. “As it was in the days of Noah… so shall it be in the days of the Son of Man,” Wayne emphasized, connecting the dots between Genesis, Revelation and current spiritual movements.

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If you want to learn more about the history of the Nephilim and their role in the end times, watch the full interview in the video above.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

On a recent episode of Faith with Katie, host Katie Souza sat down with Dr. Mark Chironna for a powerful conversation on healing from emotional wounds and moving forward from past trauma.

The discussion centered around the widespread issue of believers who are stuck in a cycle of emotional languishing—feeling unfulfilled, anxious, and burdened by unresolved pain. Both Souza and Chironna emphasized that unless the inner man is healed, the church cannot fully step into revival or restoration.

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The interview explored how biblical principles offer a clear path to healing and freedom.

Dr. Chironna pointed to examples in Scripture, such as Esau’s fateful decision to give up his birthright due to a wounded soul, as evidence of how unchecked emotional pain can lead to devastating consequences. He explained that God desires wholeness for His people—spirit, soul and body—and that allowing the Holy Spirit to search the heart and bring hidden issues to light is key to experiencing transformation.

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The conversation also addressed the need to separate conviction from condemnation and to fully embrace the truth of God’s love.

True healing, they said, begins when believers stop trying to fix themselves and instead surrender their past to Christ. Through guided prayer and spiritual activation, viewers were encouraged to identify areas of pain, release emotional burdens and embrace the peace and identity found in God’s presence.

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To learn more about the biblical ways to overcome the past and walk in wholeness, watch the full video above.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

A groundbreaking development has taken place on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, marking what maybe a significant step toward the fulfillment of end-times prophecy.

For the first time in modern history, Jewish worshipers have been officially permitted to openly sing, pray and dance across the entire Temple Mount under the protection of Israeli police.

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This change follows a new directive from Israeli National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, overturning decades of harsh restrictions that once prohibited even whispered Jewish prayers at the site.

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Pastor James Kaddis unpacks the deep prophetic significance of this event, connecting it to biblical passages that speak of a future temple in Jerusalem. He explains how these recent policy shifts align with what Scripture foretells regarding the last days, particularly the expectation of a rebuilt temple and the rise of the Antichrist. Kaddis emphasizes that such developments were once unimaginable, especially given the current political instability across the region, yet they are now unfolding rapidly before our eyes.

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As preparations continue behind the scenes, including the discovery of ancient stones and red heifers necessary for temple rituals, these events are undeniable signs of approaching prophetic fulfillment.

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To better understand the spiritual implications and what may come next, please watch the full video above for deeper insights into this historic and rapidly evolving moment.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

In a recent episode of The John Bevere Podcast, John Bevere and his son Arden walked listeners through the sobering yet hopeful message Jesus gave to the church in Ephesus in Revelation 2. Though praised for their commitment to truth and discernment, the Ephesian believers were confronted with a heart issue many in today’s church may also face: the loss of their first love.

“You can’t get a more direct message from Jesus about the churches post-Resurrection than these,” Bevere said. “God never would have put this in Scripture had it not all applied to you and I today.”

Ephesus, a city once known as “the light of Asia,” was a cultural and spiritual powerhouse. It was home to one of the largest churches in the first century. Bevere noted, “It literally was huge… Timothy was pastoring a mega church, so to speak.”

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Jesus’ words to this influential church, found in Revelation 2:2-3, were both affirming and alarming. Bevere read the passage: “I know all the things you do. I have seen your hard work and your patient endurance. I know you don’t tolerate evil people. You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles but are not. You have discovered they are liars. You have patiently suffered for me without quitting.”

Despite the impressive spiritual résumé, Jesus followed with a powerful rebuke: “But I have this complaint against you. You don’t love me or each other as you did at first. Look how far you have fallen!”

Bevere emphasized the seriousness of this statement: “This is Jesus talking. Words are in red.”

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The Ephesus church was strong in truth but had grown cold in love. “If you have truth without love, you end up into being dogmatic and legalistic. If you have love without truth, you end up being woke. Worldly. It takes both,” Bevere said.

He warned against majoring on the minors in Christian practice, particularly when it leads to judgment instead of love. “There are people that literally get on social media and berate my wife because they say, ‘You are a female and you’re preaching the Gospel.’ One person actually said, ‘The greatest of evils is a woman preaching behind a pulpit.’”

This type of legalism, Bevere pointed out, mirrors the very attitude Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for: “You strain out a gnat and you swallow a camel.”

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Quoting Revelation 2:5, Bevere read Jesus’ command to the church: “Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don’t repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.”

This warning comes with a promise for restoration: return to love. “Jesus is looking at all these churches, what they do—not what they believe,” Bevere said. “Because what you do reflects what you believe.”

Even works rooted in truth are meaningless without love. “Jesus said their original works were out of their pure love for Jesus. Their works now are out of, hey, we’re in our club. We’ve got our rules… They have lost the compassion of God in their heart for people.”

The good news? There’s a way back.

“I want to just take the time right now. If you say, John and Arden, I actually can see how I’ve drifted from my first love… the word is repent. Repent just means I’m going to have a change of heart, a change of mind. I’m going to return back to my passionate love for Jesus.”

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John closed the podcast by encouraging believers to regularly ask God for renewed love: “Keep praying and just saying, ‘God, just pour out your love in my heart for your people every single morning when you go to prayer.’”

If you find yourself serving but lacking joy, standing for truth but missing compassion, or growing cold in your passion for Jesus, He’s inviting you back. Just as He called the Ephesians, He calls you to return to the works you did at first, when your heart burned with love for Him.

Let His love be your driving force. Let your life reflect not just truth, but truth in love.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

Why do some prayers seem to carry power while others fall flat? According to Pastor Kap Chatfield, the difference is in understanding and applying biblical principles. Drawing from Mark 11:23, he outlines 12 Scriptural rules to help believers pray with the authority God intended, and to see results.

“Jesus said, ‘Whoever says to this mountain, be removed and be cast into the sea and does not doubt in his heart… he will have whatever he says.’ I don’t think Jesus was pulling any punches there,” Chatfield said.

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These 12 rules offer practical, biblical insight into praying with power:

1. Believe in the Authority of Jesus

Many Christians believe in Jesus’ compassion but quietly question His power. Chatfield explains that faith must begin with full confidence in Christ’s absolute authority. “We need to make an agreement that He is actually able and has the authority to do these things,” he said, referencing Matthew 28:18. If you don’t believe He can move the mountain, you won’t pray like He will.

2. Receive the Authority of Jesus

It’s not enough to believe Jesus has authority, we must also accept that He has shared it with us. Luke 10:19 makes this clear. “Jesus gave us this authority… to raise the dead, to heal the sick, to cast out devils,” Chatfield said. Many Christians pray like powerless servants instead of authorized representatives. Recognizing our delegated authority changes the way we intercede.

3. Pray in Jesus’ Name

Using the name of Jesus isn’t a religious formality—it’s a legal transaction in the Spirit. “When we pray in Jesus’s name, what we’re saying is, I’m praying as if Jesus were praying right now,” Chatfield said. It’s about carrying His character and commission into every prayer. He reminds us that true protocol is praying to the Father, in the name of Jesus, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

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4. Pray According to the Word

Prayers rooted in emotions or opinions often lack biblical alignment. Chatfield emphasizes the need to pray based on Scripture, which reveals God’s will. “When we pray according to His Word, it’s like being a lawyer in a courtroom,” he said. “The judge is going to say, ‘Let’s go according to what the written law says.’” Citing 1 John 5:14-15, he encourages believers to claim God’s promises with boldness.

5. Confess Sin

Even subtle sins, like bitterness or doubt, can hinder prayer. “If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear,” Chatfield quoted from Psalm 66:18. He shared personal examples where unrepented offenses disrupted his prayers. “You want to walk clean,” he said. Confession clears the line of communication and restores clarity and authority in prayer.

6. Envision the Prayer Answered

Faith includes spiritual sight. Chatfield teaches that visualizing the answer to prayer strengthens faith and brings alignment between the heart and the promise. “When you can see it… your prayers become more focused and more potent,” he said. He encourages journaling, meditating, and even imagining what it looks and feels like when the breakthrough happens, referencing Hebrews 11:1 and Genesis 15.

7. Fast

Fasting weakens the flesh and amplifies the Spirit. It sharpens spiritual discernment and breaks unbelief. “The fastest way to get into the presence of God is fasting,” Chatfield said, citing Matthew 17:21. He distinguishes biblical fasting as going without food—not just avoiding social media. Fasting is spiritual warfare preparation and one of the most direct ways to increase authority.

8. Fill Yourself With Testimonies

Hearing what God has done for others builds faith for what He can do for you. “The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy… what He did for one, He can do for you,” Chatfield said, quoting Revelation 19:10. He challenges believers to binge testimonies of healing, provision and deliverance, because each one becomes a prophetic indicator of possibility.

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9. Pray in Agreement With Others

There is multiplied power in corporate prayer. “One can chase a thousand, but two can put 10,000 to flight,” Chatfield quoted from Deuteronomy 32:30. Isolation weakens believers, while unity strengthens them. He encourages everyone to find prayer partners, join Bible studies and pray with others in faith. “Spiritual authority multiplies when believers unite.”

10. Pray Consistently

Breakthrough often comes to those who keep pressing. Quoting Luke 18:1 and Matthew 7:7-8, Chatfield said, “Sometimes you’ve got to wrestle for it.” He compared prayer to wrestling—intense, exhausting, and requiring endurance. “If Jesus needed to pray all night, how much more do we?” he asked. Persistence is the key to breakthrough.

11. Pray Fervently

Prayer should reflect the urgency and emotion behind the need. “God is not moved by religious reciting, He responds to real passion and desperation,” Chatfield said, citing Hebrews 5:7 and James 5:16. Jesus Himself prayed with “vehement cries and tears.” Lukewarm prayers reveal lukewarm faith. Fervent prayer engages the spirit, soul, and body.

12. Pray With Thanksgiving

Gratitude is evidence of faith. “Thanksgiving is the spiritual signal that says, ‘It’s done. I believe it,’” Chatfield said, referencing Philippians 4:6-7 and Mark 11:24. Prayers should end with thanks, not repetition. When you truly believe God has heard and answered, thanksgiving becomes your response—even before the answer manifests.

These 12 rules aren’t just guidelines, they’re spiritual strategies rooted in Scripture. They’re designed to align the believer’s heart, mind and voice with God’s will and power.

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“I want to hear the testimonies come through as you pray this way,” Chatfield said.

Whether you’re praying for healing, provision, deliverance or salvation, these biblical principles equip you to stand in the authority of Christ and see results. Your prayers matter, and when aligned with God’s Word and empowered by faith, they can move mountains.

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

In a powerful and timely July 4th message, Pastor Dave Bowen with Hope for Our Times tackled the claim that the United States was never a Christian nation, an idea pushed by many in today’s secular media. With passion and historical clarity, Bowen set the record straight using documented evidence rather than opinion.

“Do we have a godless constitution?” Bowen asked at the outset. “Is America a Christian nation? Was it ever a Christian nation?”

While many secular outlets, such as the Associated Press, argue that the Constitution does not establish Christianity as the nation’s foundation, Bowen points to both federal and state documents that reveal a different story.

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“I just want to look at the documents,” Bowen said. “I’m not going to use quotes from the founding fathers that can be debated. I want to stay with records, not opinion.”

Early State Constitutions Reflect Christian Foundations

Bowen shared multiple examples of early American state constitutions that explicitly required belief in Christianity and adherence to biblical principles.

“Massachusetts in 1780 required officials to declare belief in the Christian religion,” he said. “New Hampshire’s 1784 constitution said no person shall be elected who is not of the Christian religion. Connecticut referred to the Holy Bible as a legal authority. Delaware in 1776 required public officials to profess faith in God the Father, Jesus Christ His only Son and the Holy Ghost.”

Even South Carolina’s constitution in 1778 stated, “The Christian Protestant religion shall be deemed the established religion of the state.”

9 Biblical Influences on the U.S. Constitution

Bowen emphasized that biblical values were not just present in state constitutions—they are woven into the fabric of the U.S. Constitution itself. He listed specific scriptural references that align with constitutional principles:

1. Isaiah 33:22 – “For the Lord is our judge, the Lord is our lawgiver, the Lord is our king.” Bowen said, “That’s where our three branches of government come from.”
2. Jeremiah 17:9 – The heart is deceitful, justifying the need for separation of powers.
3. Leviticus 19:34 – Welcoming immigrants, mirrored in Article I, Section 8.
4. Deuteronomy 17:15 – The president must be a natural-born citizen (Article II, Section 1).
5. Deuteronomy 17:6 – No one may be executed by the testimony of one witness (Article III, Section 3).
6. Ezekiel 18:20 – Guilt is not transferable to family members, related to treason clauses in Article I.
7. Ezra 7:24 – Tax exemption for churches and religious institutions.
8. Exodus 18:21 – The structure of representative government (Article IV, Section 4).
9. Exodus 20 (The Ten Commandments) – Foundational moral laws behind U.S. criminal statutes.

“Our Constitution is based on the Bible,” Bowen said. “But that’s not what we’re going to be told.”

A Turning Point in 1961

Bowen highlighted the 1961 Supreme Court case Torcaso v. Watkins, which struck down religious requirements for holding public office. The Court ruled that such tests were unconstitutional, citing concerns over different versions of the Ten Commandments: Catholic, Protestant, Jewish and Lutheran.

“They didn’t change any of the Ten Commandments,” Bowen explained. “They just rearranged the order based on emphasis. And the Supreme Court said because we can’t pick one version over another, we won’t favor any.”

This decision rendered all Christian religious tests in state constitutions unenforceable.

Consequences of Removing God

Bowen drew a stark contrast between America before and after 1961.

“From 1961 to 1991, violent crime more than quadrupled,” he said. “Hard drug use among 12th graders rose from 0 to 62% by 2023. We took God out of the classroom and replaced biblical discipline with metal detectors.”

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He added: “Let’s take God out and see how that works out. The numbers don’t lie.”

A Call to Remember

As the nation celebrated its 249th birthday, Bowen urged believers to remember the truth of America’s Christian heritage.

“We do have a godless constitution—now,” he said. “But that’s not the way it was originally designed.”

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In a final word of encouragement, he quoted President Dwight D. Eisenhower:

“Faith was the single most important distinction between freedom and communism.”

And as Pastor Dave reminded his audience: “Our founding fathers overwhelmingly quoted the Bible more than any other source—34% of their writings. The next highest was only 8%. The evidence is there. We just need to look at it.”

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.

In a recent episode of Prophecy Watchers, host Mondo Gonzales sat down with Sean O’Rourke to explore the staggering scientific evidence pointing toward a Creator, and how it all ties into Romans 1.

O’Rourke, who described himself as “a mechanic” who thinks in “cause and effect” terms, laid out a powerful case for intelligent design. “I love watching documentaries and I love looking at God’s creation,” O’Rourke said. “Every time somebody says [it] arrived by chance, my mind just short circuits.”

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The conversation repeatedly returned to Scripture, with Gonzales reading directly from Romans 1:18-21 and comparing the suppression of truth to a beach ball held under water. “You have to actively push it down to keep it from coming up. And that’s what the truth here is,” Gonzales said. “It says… what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it to them.”

O’Rourke agreed, reflecting on how he once wrestled with that passage. “That was one of those verses where I was like, really? Are they without an excuse? They’ve been lied to so much.” But after years of examining the data and speaking with skeptics, he came to a firm conclusion: “They really are willfully ignorant of the good stuff, the information, the truth.”

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According to both men, the refusal to acknowledge a Creator isn’t about the lack of evidence, it’s about the desire for independence from God. “They don’t want to be accountable,” O’Rourke said. “They like it. They don’t want to be told what they can and can’t do from a higher power.”

Throughout the interview, Gonzales challenged viewers not to “bet your eternal destiny” on unproven secular theories. “It is a bet that you’re going to lose,” he said. “You would be foolish to bet your eternal destiny on something that is absolutely and unfathomably impossible based on math.”

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O’Rourke summed up the issue by quoting his father: “God gave you a brain and He expects you to use it.”

James Lasher is staff writer for Charisma Media.